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	<title>Comments on: A Response to Hallmarks of the Politically Correct Myth of the American Civil War, Part 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/</link>
	<description>Informed Amateurs Blog the American Civil War</description>
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		<title>By: Hallmarks of the Politically Correct Myth of the American Civil War &#124; TOCWOC - A Civil War Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-11107</link>
		<dc:creator>Hallmarks of the Politically Correct Myth of the American Civil War &#124; TOCWOC - A Civil War Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Feb 2011 16:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/?p=7681#comment-11107</guid>
		<description>[...] also like to note my own (Brett Schulte&#8217;s) two-part response to Jim&#8217;s post below, only days after this one appeared.  My point is that you may [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] also like to note my own (Brett Schulte&#8217;s) two-part response to Jim&#8217;s post below, only days after this one appeared.  My point is that you may [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6234</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/?p=7681#comment-6234</guid>
		<description>“I’m not trying to argue that some northerners didn’t become Confederates, only that the term “Southerners” as used by many is misleading.” 

And Mr. Durney&#039;s point, based on your reasoning, is that the term &quot;Northerners&quot; is also misleading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“I’m not trying to argue that some northerners didn’t become Confederates, only that the term “Southerners” as used by many is misleading.” </p>
<p>And Mr. Durney&#8217;s point, based on your reasoning, is that the term &#8220;Northerners&#8221; is also misleading.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis A. DeCaro Jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6227</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis A. DeCaro Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/?p=7681#comment-6227</guid>
		<description>No, there is no basis for the presumption that Brown was insane.  He was an extremist but that&#039;s not the same for insanity; indeed, even extremism is subjective; to no surprise, black people have never considered Brown extreme or insane because they understood their own human rights were at stake.  Regardless, the insane or manic notion actually has no basis in fact.  It is more likely that Lincoln was mentally ill than Brown.  The insane notion has two origins--Southerners who naturally slandered him; and his friends and family who collaborated in a legal ploy to have Brown&#039;s sentence commuted by preparing affidavits.  

As to the notion that the raid was quixotic, this is also an assumption, apparently based on wide spread miseducation about what Brown intended.  Brown actually took HF and seized the armory with no real resistance.  He knew it the armory was under civilian guard.  As he told Gov. Wise of Virginia, who said basically the thing as you, Brown retorted that he had taken HF and held it for nearly two days.  In fact, Brown&#039;s plan was to move in and out quickly; he himself said repeatedly that he failed by not following his own plan which was to make a quick strike, occupy HF for only a short time, gather as many enslaved people as available, and move off into the mountains.  The conventional notion that slaves did not support Brown has been overturned; there is solid argumentation for a good response with a promise of many more.  So the plan was not quixotic; it failed, and failed missions always stand the harsher judgment of historians.  But Brown and his men did not go to HF to hole up and fight to the death like their moral counterparts at the Alamo (who fought to the death quixotically for the dream of expanded slave territory).  Had Brown not failed in his strategic choices on the ground, the raid would have been a mere first step.  

Not everyone who defends Brown is an advocate of PCness, just like everyone who views JB is a white racist.  But your view of Brown needs a lot of reconsideration.  The Pottawatomie killings were ugly, but the conventional notion of those killings is hardly conclusive.  My own reading of those killings is that they were brutal but preemptive--more counter-terroristic than terrorism.  Brown was in Kansas territory for months without lifting a hand; he was actually an optimist and his letters show his belief that democracy would prevail in Kansas.  But when pro-slavery terrorism overshadowed the territory and the free state side remained passive and naive as to the government&#039;s intervention, not only were free state people generally threatened, but flagrant pro-black people like the Browns WERE targeted.  The five men who were killed by Brown&#039;s party were collaborators and there is lots of reason to think they were conspiring against the Browns with lethal intent.   The wife of one of the men killed admitted as much when she scolded her doomed husband for his &quot;devilment.&quot;  Brown went to Kansas to protect his sons and was drawn into the civil war that was begun by pro-slavery thugs.  He didn&#039;t start it but he wasn&#039;t going to let thugs assault his family and if he overreacted (and I don&#039;t think he did), he deserves more sympathy--there was no local or federal constabulary to protect the Browns; the territory was overrun by southern terrorists and democracy was underfoot; the highest leaders in the land had turned a blind eye to slavery&#039;s benefit.   He had to act and the men who killed under his command agreed with him, not just his sons, but a neighbor and a son-in-law; the latter argued until his dying day that the killings were necessary for survival.  I believe they were and I find it unfortunate that in a society that has suddenly awakened to the realities of terrorism, Brown is seen as one of &quot;them&quot; rather than one of &quot;us.&quot;  

If you think that not apologizing for John Brown is PCness, you&#039;re entitled to your opinion.  I am a biographer and a student of the man&#039;s life and it is my opinion that across ideological lines, people who have studied Brown the closest tend to agree as to his basic character and integrity.  With all due respect, you need to study the man closer.  What is going on today in Brown studies is not the triumph of PCness necessarily; it is a breaking away from a lot of traditional, conventional, and hackneyed notions about the man that were themselves born out of snobbery and prejudice in former generations of historians.    Regards--LD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, there is no basis for the presumption that Brown was insane.  He was an extremist but that&#8217;s not the same for insanity; indeed, even extremism is subjective; to no surprise, black people have never considered Brown extreme or insane because they understood their own human rights were at stake.  Regardless, the insane or manic notion actually has no basis in fact.  It is more likely that Lincoln was mentally ill than Brown.  The insane notion has two origins&#8211;Southerners who naturally slandered him; and his friends and family who collaborated in a legal ploy to have Brown&#8217;s sentence commuted by preparing affidavits.  </p>
<p>As to the notion that the raid was quixotic, this is also an assumption, apparently based on wide spread miseducation about what Brown intended.  Brown actually took HF and seized the armory with no real resistance.  He knew it the armory was under civilian guard.  As he told Gov. Wise of Virginia, who said basically the thing as you, Brown retorted that he had taken HF and held it for nearly two days.  In fact, Brown&#8217;s plan was to move in and out quickly; he himself said repeatedly that he failed by not following his own plan which was to make a quick strike, occupy HF for only a short time, gather as many enslaved people as available, and move off into the mountains.  The conventional notion that slaves did not support Brown has been overturned; there is solid argumentation for a good response with a promise of many more.  So the plan was not quixotic; it failed, and failed missions always stand the harsher judgment of historians.  But Brown and his men did not go to HF to hole up and fight to the death like their moral counterparts at the Alamo (who fought to the death quixotically for the dream of expanded slave territory).  Had Brown not failed in his strategic choices on the ground, the raid would have been a mere first step.  </p>
<p>Not everyone who defends Brown is an advocate of PCness, just like everyone who views JB is a white racist.  But your view of Brown needs a lot of reconsideration.  The Pottawatomie killings were ugly, but the conventional notion of those killings is hardly conclusive.  My own reading of those killings is that they were brutal but preemptive&#8211;more counter-terroristic than terrorism.  Brown was in Kansas territory for months without lifting a hand; he was actually an optimist and his letters show his belief that democracy would prevail in Kansas.  But when pro-slavery terrorism overshadowed the territory and the free state side remained passive and naive as to the government&#8217;s intervention, not only were free state people generally threatened, but flagrant pro-black people like the Browns WERE targeted.  The five men who were killed by Brown&#8217;s party were collaborators and there is lots of reason to think they were conspiring against the Browns with lethal intent.   The wife of one of the men killed admitted as much when she scolded her doomed husband for his &#8220;devilment.&#8221;  Brown went to Kansas to protect his sons and was drawn into the civil war that was begun by pro-slavery thugs.  He didn&#8217;t start it but he wasn&#8217;t going to let thugs assault his family and if he overreacted (and I don&#8217;t think he did), he deserves more sympathy&#8211;there was no local or federal constabulary to protect the Browns; the territory was overrun by southern terrorists and democracy was underfoot; the highest leaders in the land had turned a blind eye to slavery&#8217;s benefit.   He had to act and the men who killed under his command agreed with him, not just his sons, but a neighbor and a son-in-law; the latter argued until his dying day that the killings were necessary for survival.  I believe they were and I find it unfortunate that in a society that has suddenly awakened to the realities of terrorism, Brown is seen as one of &#8220;them&#8221; rather than one of &#8220;us.&#8221;  </p>
<p>If you think that not apologizing for John Brown is PCness, you&#8217;re entitled to your opinion.  I am a biographer and a student of the man&#8217;s life and it is my opinion that across ideological lines, people who have studied Brown the closest tend to agree as to his basic character and integrity.  With all due respect, you need to study the man closer.  What is going on today in Brown studies is not the triumph of PCness necessarily; it is a breaking away from a lot of traditional, conventional, and hackneyed notions about the man that were themselves born out of snobbery and prejudice in former generations of historians.    Regards&#8211;LD</p>
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		<title>By: Will Hickox</title>
		<link>http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6226</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hickox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/?p=7681#comment-6226</guid>
		<description>Mr. Durney: It&#039;s funny, but I could have sworn that I had indicated in the comment directly above yours that I wasn&#039;t disputing the notion that some northerners supported the Confederacy.

And I quote: &quot;I’m not trying to argue that some northerners didn’t become Confederates, only that the term “Southerners” as used by many is misleading.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Durney: It&#8217;s funny, but I could have sworn that I had indicated in the comment directly above yours that I wasn&#8217;t disputing the notion that some northerners supported the Confederacy.</p>
<p>And I quote: &#8220;I’m not trying to argue that some northerners didn’t become Confederates, only that the term “Southerners” as used by many is misleading.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James Durney</title>
		<link>http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6225</link>
		<dc:creator>James Durney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/?p=7681#comment-6225</guid>
		<description>What will you do with &quot;Northerners&quot;?  You will have to consider the copperheads, people in border states and many Democrats that refused to support the &quot;Lincolnite War&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What will you do with &#8220;Northerners&#8221;?  You will have to consider the copperheads, people in border states and many Democrats that refused to support the &#8220;Lincolnite War&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Hickox</title>
		<link>http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/2009/11/13/a-response-to-hallmarks-of-the-politically-correct-myth-of-the-american-civil-war-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6217</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hickox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.brettschulte.net/CWBlog/?p=7681#comment-6217</guid>
		<description>One way to begin correcting a distorted view of the Civil War could be to stop using the term &quot;Southerners&quot; when we mean &quot;whites in the south who supported the Confederacy.&quot; Not only were there 4 million slaves in the south who were certainly southerners, but a good many whites in the region opposed the rebellion. At the very least, tens of thousands of white southerners fought in the Union army, and this doesn&#039;t include their families or the many others who stayed home but refused to support the Jeff Davis regime. (I&#039;m not trying to argue that some northerners didn&#039;t become Confederates, only that the term &quot;Southerners&quot; as used by many is misleading.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way to begin correcting a distorted view of the Civil War could be to stop using the term &#8220;Southerners&#8221; when we mean &#8220;whites in the south who supported the Confederacy.&#8221; Not only were there 4 million slaves in the south who were certainly southerners, but a good many whites in the region opposed the rebellion. At the very least, tens of thousands of white southerners fought in the Union army, and this doesn&#8217;t include their families or the many others who stayed home but refused to support the Jeff Davis regime. (I&#8217;m not trying to argue that some northerners didn&#8217;t become Confederates, only that the term &#8220;Southerners&#8221; as used by many is misleading.)</p>
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